Learn from Karen Budell, CMO at Totango + Catalyst, about leading a marketing team post-merger.
This episode features an interview with Karen Budell, CMO, Totango + Catalyst. Totango and Catalyst recently joined forces to build a leading customer growth platform that helps businesses protect and grow revenue, providing businesses with a united platform that drives recurring revenue success and measurable growth.
In this episode, Karen talks about leading a marketing team through a merge. She talks about the importance of customer success and investing in the full marketing “bowtie” to focus on retaining customers.
Key Takeaways:
Quote:
Episode Timestamps:
*(4:18) The Trust Tree: Outcome-based conversations with customers
*(16:02) The Playbook: Updating the website post-merger
*(33:24) The Dust-Up: CMOs that come from a brand focus
*(39:59) Quick Hits: Karen’s quick hits
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Producer: Hello and welcome to Pipeline Visionaries. This episode features an interview with Karen Budell Totango + Catalyst. Totango and Catalyst recently joined forces to build a leading customer growth platform that helps businesses protect and grow revenue, providing businesses with a united platform that drives recurring revenue success and measurable growth.
In this episode, Karen talks about leading a marketing team through a merger. She also talks about the importance of customer success and [00:01:00] investing in the full marketing bowtie to focus on retaining customers. Now let's get into the episode.
Ian: Welcome to Pipeline Visionaries. I'm Ian Faison, CEO of Caspian Studios.
And today we are joined by a special guest, Karen. How are you?
Karen: I'm great, Ian. Glad to be here today. How are you doing?
Ian: Excited to have you on the show. Excited to talk Totango plus Catalyst. I'm marketing during a merger and your background, everything in between. Today's show is always brought to you by our friends at Qualified.
Go to qualified. com to learn how Qualified helps you turn your website into a pipeline generation machine with Pipeline AI. Engage and convert your most valuable website visitors with Live chat, chatbots, meeting scheduling, content data, and Piper, your AISDR. First question, Karen, what was your first job in marketing?
Karen: Oh, wow. My first job in marketing was as an events and partnership marketing coordinator at the good old Tribune company in Chicago. So, I [00:02:00] had a very fun job of working with our sales team to put on events all over the city of Chicago at the hottest bars and nightclubs to help draw in advertisers and their target audience.
It was really tough.
Ian: Yeah, it's a tough, somebody has to do it, you know, and here you are today. Tell us what it means to be a marketing leader such as yourself, CMO of Totango.
Karen: Well, I will say just to segue from that, shortly after I started my first marketing gig, I went to grad school to focus more on that.
I got my MBA with a concentration in marketing and that really helped me chart my course to becoming a marketing leader. It is all about making sure that you can set the vision for your team and connect that to the business strategy and the brand strategy. Make sure that your team's focused on that and firing at all cylinders.
So I always like to think that I'm always hiring and developing talent. That's a core part of being a leader, making sure you've got a great squad so that if you go on [00:03:00] vacation, like I just did recently, you know, that things are running smoothly.
Ian: Indeed. Yeah. And so, and tell us about this new company, Totango + Catalyst.
Karen: Yeah, well, one of the fun and exciting parts of being a marketing or any leader for that matter is, is when you go through an M& A or a big event. So we were excited to share at the beginning of 2024 that we merged with Catalyst. So Totango and Catalyst came together. We're currently co marketing as we work through all of the.
Fun challenges and opportunities that come post merger. I like to talk about it as it's like moving in with a partner or a new roommate where you come, come into your apartment and everyone's got two sets of pots and pans or their favorite piece of artwork and a couch, and you kind of have to go through, all right, well, what, what's the best of, of both worlds?
What do we want to move forward into our, you know, unified household, so to speak. So we're working through that on our own go to market tech stack. Through our product and [00:04:00] brand unification. And that's been a really fun challenge. I love embracing change. I love leading teams through that change. And so we're a few months post merger, gelling really well as a unified employee base and working on delivering the best customer success software that we can to the market.
Ian: Let's get to our first segment, the trust tree, where
Mash up: we go and feel honest and trusted. And you can
Ian: share those deepest, darkest pipeline secrets. Tell us what do Totango and Catalyst do?
Karen: Well, we develop software and methodology that helps companies protect and grow their customer revenue. I think that's something that a lot of businesses have learned over the last couple of years as it's great for acquisition and new business, but the real growth lever today is in protecting and growing revenue from your customer [00:05:00] base.
And that all has to do with making sure you are helping your customers achieve their business goals. That's our focus and our mission to help, help equip teams with our customer growth platform so they can drive more predictable growth in today's environment.
Ian: And I do have to say, as I've, I've worked with Totango in the past, a couple of years ago.
And so, and I've, I've consumed some of the great content that y'all put out specifically around You know, for customer success and, and some of those frameworks and things. So I really enjoy, I believe, I believe I, I did the, the ultimate, what is customer success? The ultimate guide. You got going on a few other things.
And it's interesting, you know, you mentioned sort of how important customer success is. And I think we can, we all like inherently know that in the sort of like the, the modern age, but, but, you know. The devil is how, right? And there's just so many touch points that are opportunities for someone to say, you know what, we just don't want to do this again next year.
[00:06:00] That's kind of more important than ever.
Karen: That is so true. And that's why one of the things that we talk about is how important it is to start those conversations, even before the sale is complete, but starting those conversations with your prospect about what it is What is the outcome that they're trying to achieve?
Why did they even look for your solution in the first place? So identifying that desired goal, business objective is so important in the pre sale motion. And as you close the deal and make that handoff to your customer success and post sale team, like that's what everyone's goal should be is making sure you're delivering value to your customers on a recurring basis.
And And that you're helping them achieve their, their business objectives. You want them to win, having your customers achieve success is your success. And so that's really the motion, but easier said than done, as you pointed out, right? There's a lot of teams involved. There's a lot of technology involved, but we find that starting with an outcome first conversation and making that be your North star is really the way to unlock that [00:07:00] value.
Ian: And who are your customers? What's the size and location and vertical stuff like that?
Karen: Yeah. So when we brought together our organizations, we really expanded our customer base to Tango has been playing in this space for 14 years or more. And we've got fantastic enterprise customer base due to the scalability of our platform.
Long time customers like SAP, HP, Enterprise. We work with Aircall, Drada, Braze, fast growing brands. And, you know, as we were talking about, a lot of people are recognizing how important it is to not only invest in the funnel, the marketing funnel that we know, but the full bow tie. So you got a customer, how do you keep them?
And we're seeing more and more brands outside your traditional SaaS or software space, recognize the importance of keeping and growing their customer base. So stay tuned. We've got some very exciting potential deals in the pipeline.
Ian: Amazing. And that buying committee, who signs off, who's, who's leading it?
Karen: Yeah. So [00:08:00] one of the things that we've been seeing recently is, is more folks understand the importance of customer success and growth from your base is that the buying committee Changes a little bit depending on what that reporting structure looks like. Oftentimes we're talking to a director of customer success, a VP of customer success, but more and more, we are seeing account managers, chief revenue officers, heads of sales that might have responsibility for renewals, retention, and expansion, start that conversation and then bring in their CS counterparts.
So really this is that go to market team looking to keep the, the customers that they spent time, money, and effort. Winning, but typically CS and sales leaders are the primary folks that we see on the buying committee today.
Ian: Zooming out. What's your marketing strategy?
Karen: Ooh, that's a, that's a big zoom out.
Well, one of the things that we have seen work really well is engaging in the community through a hybrid event strategy. We've [00:09:00] found that going to market through a combination of both live and virtual events. Events that we might produce ourselves or that we team up with and partner through a sponsorship or partnership have worked really well because so many folks are trying to understand how they either need to stand up a customer success motion or evolve their post sale organization to better retain and expand their customer base.
So that event strategy has been a great way for us to get our leadership team and our customers out on the road, sharing how they've done it, what they What their playbook to success has been. It also is a really nice feedback loop because we're able to hear a lot of the challenges that business leaders and CS and sales leaders are grappling with today.
One of the trickiest things that a lot of teams deal with is you got a customer, they're doing great. You want to potentially sell them more because you're trying to have, you know, have them achieve more value through using your product or service. And [00:10:00] you know, who identifies the lead, who closes the deal, who gets credit?
That's a lot of the questions that companies are dealing with. We figured it out well with the marketing and sales motion, pre sales are the top of the funnel. But if you look at The right side of that bow tie, there's a lot of question of responsibility and what that partnership and role looks like for different teams.
Ian: It's so funny like The devil's just in the details, you know, or maybe the revenue is in the details, I suppose. But it is so funny because every single organization, every single one deals with this exact thing. Do you have the rep come back? Does the rep have a continuity with the account? Is the person who's providing customer success, are they just responsible for success, but not renewals?
Who does renewals? Like, it's like these same questions over and over and over again. As new companies get made, they have to solve these same things. And it's just a funny thing that. Like there's almost endless education. I mean, there's endless education in every field, obviously, but with this specifically, one of the [00:11:00] things for the customer success, sort of like as a function, I guess you could say, I think that part of it is there's no right answer, but each org is going to be different.
But I think what, what's so fascinating to me about it from like a marketing standpoint is like how many people actually. Like, know what they're doing for this sort of, this, for customer success. And I, what I mean to say that is, I kind of feel like I'm very often in the echo chamber here. Or then you go, like, go to an event somewhere and you talk to someone and they're like, yeah, I mean, after we close the deal, you know, we'll, we'll send them a couple emails and you're like, you know, and then you meet someone who has like a full fledged customer Success huge function where they're doing all these crazy, cool things and personalization and, you know, really checking in along the way and all these other things.
So like, how, what inning are we in? You know what I mean? Like, how, how, how far along, like, or how much educating are you doing of like the one on one type teaching of like, this is what customer success is. [00:12:00]
Karen: Well, I mean, that's a great question. Customer success as a function is Fairly young compared to marketing and sales.
So I do, I do feel like we're still in the early innings to, to go down that path. And a lot of it has to do with, even if, even in companies that have a customer success function, if they sign up a new product line, if they expand into a new geo, you now have to figure out, do you replicate that motion? You know, is it a kind of drag and drop or, or is there something else that.
And so we're right now partnering up with GTM partners and several other great B2B brands talking about, do you have a marketing problem, a sales problem, product problem, customer success? No, you have a go to market problem, right? So I think what we're seeing, especially given the last, uh, 3 years and the economy and how this has shifted the way that we all reevaluate our playbooks, even on the B2B marketing side, right?
That's what we're seeing a lot of companies do and figure out how do [00:13:00] they better retain their customers? How do they, how do they control churn? Some of that's just going to be a condition of the market that we're in. And some of it is introspective, you know, as your, as your product Helping customers do what they intend to do when they bought it.
Are your teams working seamlessly to make sure that they're adopting the features that help unlock that value? Do they identify when there's an opportunity to use more of your product? So it's, it is going to be an interesting and ongoing discussion. And I think just as much as we hear a lot of folks talking about and recognizing the importance of retention and expansion, it's a tough nut to crack.
So I hope that we're going to be talking about this for a while. Months to come and sharing more success stories with folks.
Ian: Yeah, indeed. That's, that's cool. Okay. What about your structure? Is there anything unique that falls under marketing or anything different, or is it a pretty standard marketing org?
Karen: We've gone through a couple of iterations since I've been leading the team the past two [00:14:00] years, we were in a product led growth motion when I joined the company. And so we had a growth team, and then we had a separate team that was focused on community and content efforts. Yeah. When I joined, we brought those teams together under my leadership.
And then since then, we've gone through some, some transformation, some executive change, and now we are in a sales led motion. So we've stood up some more traditional enterprise motions with events. We have outbound motion plus our inbound with content and using our website to drive some pipeline. But I would say the one thing that I find a little bit unique when I meet with other marketing leaders is we.
We stood up a sales enablement and go to market enablement role and function within the marketing org. So reporting up to me, but a dotted line to the CROs organization. And part of the reason that I thought that that was a great fit and was so successful was because you really want to make sure that you're not just That your frontline [00:15:00] team understands who your target audience is and what your galvanizing story and narrative is all about.
So being close to the marketing team, I was working on that messaging and positioning and, and the programs and events really helped create a nice bridge and reinforce the partnership that we had with our sales team. So that might be a little bit of a different structure, sales enablement or go to market enablement in marketing, but then working closely with sales and
Ian: Anything that we missed strategy wise that we haven't talked about before we get to the playbook?
Karen: I think one of the things that we are, you know, more to come and watch this space is we are seeing the pendulum shift back towards brand playing a bigger role in marketing today. And we were focused very much on demand gen and making sure that we had solid performance and an engine humming and we're continuing to invest in and double down on our brand, especially post merger.
So I don't have anything specific to share right now, but it's a watch this space because I would say by the time that. This hits the [00:16:00] airwaves, so to speak. We'll have more to share again.
Ian: Okay, let's get to our next segment, the playbook.
Mash up: This is what's great about sports. This is what the greatest thing about sports is.
You play to win the game. Hello? You play to win the game.
Ian: Where we open up the playbook, talk about the tactics that help you win. What are your three channels or tactics that are your uncuttable budget items?
Karen: Right now, events have just been fantastic in producing for us, so that is, uh, cannot cut. And I would say some of the specific events that produce the best for us are the more intimate dinners where we can ensure we have our ICP in seat, our executives are there, and we're just having real honest conversations.
Those are fantastic. So not cutting those. We've also seen an improvement in our organic strategy and specifically through our website. So that's one where we want to continue to tinker to optimize, make sure that we've got the right content and the right pathway is for [00:17:00] our visitors on the website. And then we've actually been seeing some great success from LinkedIn, both on the paid and organic side.
And that's another area where we're going to continue to invest in. We continue to experiment with the different ad units that we use on LinkedIn. And then we also really lean into that from an organic perspective, whether that's publishing as our brand and sharing best practices and case studies from our stories, or having our own executives through their personal brand and pages, engage with the community.
Share expertise, share what we're seeing in market. I would say those are top three for us.
Ian: So you mentioned the events working really well. Is there anything like that maybe you're doing in those events that it makes them feel different in any way?
Karen: So a few years ago, we were producing our own events and putting on big conferences, user conferences.
That's a really heavy lift to do event production. We've also been showing up at industry [00:18:00] conferences, you know, your traditional trade show booth. That has not been as popular. It's a lot of time and effort and expense put in that. And like I said, sometimes just having those dinners, a more intimate setting, a hot topic or a hot take to start the conversation is done well.
But the one thing that we've really found success in is when we team up with other brands. So, you know, we're, we're doing this great partnership and a four city roadshow with GTM partners and a series of B2B brands like G2, Zoom Info, Vidyard, Mad Kudu, just demand based fantastic partners. Like, that's, I think, where you really help, um, start to cut through because you bring more experts to the table.
Ian: And are those partners like your partners? As well that you're like creating events with or those just more than just like having great guests and speakers and, you know, people to meet and network with and all that.
Karen: Yeah. Those brands were all on boards as sponsors and partners of the GTM [00:19:00] Partners Roadshow.
So.
Ian: Right, right. Okay. Yeah.
Karen: But there are others. We love teaming up on webinars or executive networking receptions and dinners with some of those brands. And that's one thing I think we'd like to continue to do more of.
Ian: Yeah, cool, cool, cool. Anything that you're doing for website specifically that that's interesting.
Thanks. Yeah,
Karen: so this is an interesting one to go back to the challenges and opportunities post merger. We have two brands, two websites, two go to market tech stacks behind those websites, and we've been working behind the scenes to consolidate into one marketing automation and CRM system. On the website, Um, we've been testing a lot of our forms and landing pages to see which is driving higher conversion.
We're obviously looking at traffic referrers and, you know, where we've got a bigger presence, which content is performing best, and as we work towards unification, again, watch this space, we [00:20:00] are continuing to optimize our site as we go forward. For the best content and helping our potential buyers get answers more quickly.
The thing that's great right now, and what I love to showcase about both the Catalyst and Tango websites is the content that we've produced by packaging up the insights we hear every day from talking to customer success and sales leaders. So we talk about, are you committing the seven deadly sins of CS?
Are you still running the old QBR of days of, you know, days of yore? Or are you really focused on providing value to executives when you get them on the phone? We do research to tap into CS and sales leaders to understand where they're running into the biggest challenges. So packaging that up into research reports has been key.
Ian: And so you also have two websites, which is, which is very difficult, but also perhaps advantageous at times. [00:21:00] Yeah, tell us about that and how you sort of manage it and how you're sort of stitching it all together.
Karen: Yeah, I mean, I would say the benefit of running two websites is you can look at the two different playbooks that brought you to this point in time and see what's working well.
You can try a tactic or a form or something like that from one site to the other and see if it works or unlock some, some new wins. So that's been fun. I would say the number one thing that we've been focusing on, and we did a big exercise on this in Totango last year as well, is reviewing your messaging.
I think sometimes we get. You know, on our own little treadmill of activities. And we don't take a moment to stop and sit back and say, are we being super clear about who we are, what we sell and who we're for? And so we're, we're constantly doing an exercise to make sure that we have that clarity and that we're making some of those updates that we're servicing the best performing content.
You know, we're getting signals all the time of what people are looking for [00:22:00] and is that front and center? Is it easy to find in one or two clicks when you get to the forum? Is it optimized? Is it clear so that, you know, you know, you're going to get time booked with the expert as you intended. Do you know who we're for?
Do you know why people choose us? So those are the kind of back to basics. You know, you hear that from a lot of leaders, but taking a moment to provide clarity. And look for where you can increase the simplicity on your site is a lot of what the team's focused on right now.
Ian: And then number three, you mentioned LinkedIn.
Karen: A
Ian: bit, a bit of a, I wouldn't say lightning, right? Because it's not because everybody's trying to figure out LinkedIn. Why do you feel like LinkedIn works for you?
Karen: Well, it's interesting. So we've got two things working for us and we always look for what is What is making us better together in this merger of Totango plus Catalyst?
The Totango company page and that brand has really grown our organic following over the last year or two, sharing some best practices, insights from leaders in the [00:23:00] field. We love sharing what our customer advisory board has been doing. has uncovered as, you know, an aha moment and getting that back into the field.
But we also have Edward Chu is our co CEO, who's co founder of Catalyst with a fantastic following on LinkedIn with a provocative point of view. And so that's, I think where we have the magic. When you have a strong voice in one of your leaders or someone on your team and their personal network, their profile, their followers is able to get that message out there coupled with.
You know, the, the brand or the company perspective, that's really been magic for us. And then of course, sprinkling in some paid to add a little bit of fuel to the fire and experimenting in which ad format works best has been a real unlock for us. So I think we'll continue to double down. But it's not easy.
You know, you gotta, you gotta focus, put in the time and, and write, but we, we love engaging with our audience on LinkedIn and hope to be doing more of that too. [00:24:00]
Ian: Yeah. I mean, one of the things that we've seen and we've talked about a bunch on the show is, is that LinkedIn, prefers content from individuals.
So when you have an individual like, like your co CEO, it's a huge advantage. So the absolutely massive advantage to have that, and really you want to try to figure out as many ways as you can get their thoughts out into the world. So it's interesting to hear you say that it's just not, you know, there's a lot of companies that don't have that advantage.
And it's cool to hear that, you know, you do, and you're trying to steer into it as much as possible.
Karen: Yeah, 100%.
Ian: Yeah. I mean, we've seen just anecdotally too, like we've seen the combination for us and, and some of our customers, especially when you have podcasts or series or, you know, a newsletter or video content that the combination of.
You know, the, the leader putting stuff out on, on, you know, organic on LinkedIn, plus the newsletter that they might, may or may not read, plus, you know, the, even doing thought leader ads or other type [00:25:00] of ads that you're starting to hit your audience in so many different places. And then, you know, maybe they'll listen to your podcast or maybe they don't, or maybe they just see clips or, or see videos or whatever, or hear you on other people's podcasts, et cetera.
Then you're starting to get. them to know who your senior leader is across multiple channels and letting them sort of opt in. And that's like, really makes, rather than just being singularly focused on a channel, having that multi channel approach actually works even better.
Karen: Yeah, you're, you're spot on.
And just to build on that with multi channel approach. So we talked about events. We talked about LinkedIn. Another important piece of this is communities. And, you know, not only having a user community where your users can share tips and tricks with each other unfiltered, but the sense of community that's created through events, or maybe it's a Slack channel.
For example, I'm a member of Pavilion. And I'm also. Also a member of CMO community. We might have our own Slack channels or events and dinners that we go to. [00:26:00] But then guess what? I'm connecting with those people on LinkedIn. They're sharing what's going on in their, in their world and their work. And now I'm engaging.
And I think that just really has that, that exponential growth effect if you can nail that multi-channel strategy and, and be a presence. But LinkedIn at the end of the day is kind of where it all comes back to people connecting. And then the beauty of that is if you have a champion. At one of your customers, move on to a new role.
You want to be able to celebrate them in that new role. That's a potential opportunity for you in future as a business that that second order customer. So a lot of opportunity and I'm, I'm enjoying watching brands like pavilion really amp up their own LinkedIn presence and drive some meaningful business through it.
So good playbooks out there for a lot of us to learn from.
Ian: I'm also on Pavilion. I haven't seen you on the thread. You know, I, I do a lot of lurking and I'm sure you do as well.
Karen: Yeah, well, we'll have to, we'll have to get a Slack thread going and
Ian: talk about podcasts. We just spoke in real life. [00:27:00]
Karen: Yeah. Not
Ian: in real life, but on the digital life.
Yeah, that's funny. I'll DM you. Anything that, that, what about stuff that's not working or something that maybe you're cutting or not investing in or is fading away? Yeah.
Karen: I would say one thing that we've pulled back on considerably, and this is an interesting one, as I talk to other marketing leaders is paid search.
For many years, you know, I've, I've worked at companies. I've talked to marketers where you could just, Say, Hey, I've got this much money left over at the end of the quarter or the month, let's put it into paid search. And I think we're seeing, you know, the quality might not be coming back as expected. It's very expensive.
CPLs are going up. And so that was a big channel for us when we were a PLG motion for bringing in long tail users and free trialers. And we've pulled back on it. It's still an important lever in our mix. But, you know, we're rethinking the role that that plays. And I'm seeing a lot of folks evaluate [00:28:00] paid search because it just gets really expensive to maintain.
And obviously the algorithms are changing the way that we as buyers are using search changes. And that's, that's allowed us actually to invest in other, Tactics and channels like user review sites such as G2, that's definitely been playing a bigger role. So having your content available through organic search events and doing podcasts like this, getting your brand out there.
We're really in an era of marketing where we've, the, we've kind of come full circle. You know, we were so focused on performance marketing. Now everyone's recognizing the importance of building your brand. Showcasing your, your expertise of yourself and your customers out there. And I'm excited about what that means.
Of course, there's a lot of pressure because we were used to being able to measure everything down to the nth degree. And when you, when you turn up the brand lever, it becomes a little bit murkier, but I'm excited about the conversations happening in the space.
Ian: Yeah, it's just like, but it's so obvious in retrospect where you go, yeah, but the [00:29:00] murkiness is where you win, right?
It's like, that's part of the thing. When something gets a lot easier to say, well, I know I can put a dollar in and get a dollar out. It's like, well, perhaps there are channels where you can put a dollar in and get a lot more out, you know? And that's, that's That's, that's marketing.
Karen: And then I would say on the website too, like I mentioned, the benefit of having two sites is really being able to learn from one or the other and see if it works or not.
So we're, we're constantly trying to optimize our site and drive more pipeline through our website. And then I would say that's where we're, we're testing some experiments, whether that has to do with content, copy, and. Another benefit of merging, you have two slightly different tones and ways of speaking to the world as a brand.
And so, you know, how provocative are we? How much do we dial that up? I think we've had some fun with that as a team learning about headlines and hot takes that cut through.
Ian: Yeah, it's pretty [00:30:00] funny. I mean, like, you know, like I said, I, I, we, Totango and Casting worked together a couple of years ago. And so I actually know, you know, knew quite a bit about the company and, and all that.
And it's funny because you take, you know, a company adding a company like, like Catalyst and that merger, and it's, it's quite as simple as they have a black website and you have a white website, you know, it's like these little things that it's like, you know, all of those things that come into play, it's, it is a fun problem to solve.
But obviously, you know, extremely complex, right? And they could have sort of digs into like, well, what, you know, if it's all about just creating this value for the customer, right? It's like, what, and we, we dial back the other stuff. But like you said, you know, investing in brand, investing in those things, like gifting, it's like, gifting is never a bad idea, you know, like you said, it's never a bad, it's someone guy, you give, you give someone a gift, you give one of your customers a gift, you know, or, or a prospect, it's not bad, it's just, could you spend money elsewhere?
That's why it's a great experiment to run, like, you could have a huge outsized impact, you know, that's why it's fun. And when you have [00:31:00] two different brands, that's, that's an interesting experiment to run because that's one of those things where it's like, you know, that's a great, It's not a digital thing.
You know what I mean? It's a physical thing, which is much more memorable.
Karen: 100%. And I will just say, you know, since we're kind of back in the year of brand or this era focused on brand building, that is a decision you don't want to take lightly. So we're being thoughtful in how we will reintroduce ourselves to the market at a point in time.
So we're, we're excited about going through the process. Of figuring that out and being able to showcase how we brought the best of, of both worlds together and to Tango Plus Catalyst.
Ian: And we'll ask about all those questions next time when you come back, we want to.
Karen: Sounds good. I'm looking forward to that.
Ian: Okay. What about AI? Are you using any tools? Are you, how are you thinking about using AI for the marketing team?
Karen: Yes, we are using AI and we have it in our product and we also use AI tools as [00:32:00] marketers. I would say we do use our own solutions. And one of the ways that we've been able to benefit is we have an AI account summary within our, our product.
So if I, you know, am having a call with one of the accounts where I'm the exec sponsor, I can go in and click a button and get a summary of how that customer is doing, where they are in their renewal cycle. Are there any hot button issues that they've been talking about with their CSM, and I can get that in a matter of seconds and feel prepped as the exec going into the call.
I love that. As a marketing leader and within our marketing team, we are big fans and friends of jasper. ai, and we love using that. It's a great brainstorming partner. It's a great editor. We talked a little bit about having two voices, two tones. You can build and train your brand voice within Jasper. And so we've been experimenting with fine tuning that.
And then within our copy, we can You know, within a couple clicks, see what that might look like through the Tango voice, through Edward's voice, [00:33:00] our co CEO. And, and we've been having a lot of fun with, with using Jasper. It's also great for, you know, we have so many different touch points where we need to engage with our customers and prospects and get our message out there.
So being able to remix and repackage your content into different formats, it's always helpful and much better than staring at a cursor on a blank Google Doc.
Ian: That is for sure. All right, let's go to the dust up. Uh oh. Here comes Trello.
Mash up: You may have heard that there was a dust up involving yours truly.
And now we've got a wild scrum with fights breaking out all over the place. And it is getting really ugly because you've got punches and kicks.
Ian: It's our segment where we talk about healthy attention to events with your board, your sales teams, your competitor, or anyone else. Have you had a memorable dust up in your career, Karin?
Karen: I mean, who hasn't? If you haven't had one, has your career really taken off Ian? I mean, that's, that's kind of what you have to think about. Yeah, I think there's, there's probably points within your [00:34:00] career where you're figuring out, you know, what path do you want to take? There's a lot of pivot points. And I look back at my career.
I started as a journalist. I was a reporter covering the police beat. I pivoted into the entertainment scene and that ultimately led me into marketing. So I think when, when I've encountered those dustups to me, it's a little bit of a step back and what, where's the tension coming from? Am I on the right path?
Am I able to articulate clearly the path that I want? Is it not coming through? Is it not a fit? So I think those are good moments to stop and take reflection, but you know, we all have them. And we move forward. And I will say another thing. I love, if folks aren't familiar with Pat Lencioni and the five dysfunctions of a team, what that really talks about is how you have productive conflict and conversations.
And I embrace whether you call it, or you look at the five dysfunctions of a team, or you talk about [00:35:00] radical candor, I think there's a lot to be said and being able to, to cut to the chase and have an honest conversation. So maybe sometimes what leads to dustups is when we aren't able to have those.
Truthful conversations.
Ian: You are one of my favorite type of people, and that is someone who was a director of content marketing, head of content, turned VP of brand, turned CMO. And I feel like there's going to be more of these. And I think that it's more important to be unique now in today's day and age, especially in SaaS, especially in tech, than it is to be the sort of like.
Super numbers driven CMO, not that there's anything wrong with that, and hopefully you can be both. But I do think that uniqueness is actually more important. And content, obviously it's my business, but also like, I think differentiation and content and brand and those things are so critical now. In addition, not to obviously all the pipeline stuff.
So I'm just curious, having [00:36:00] gone that route, any thoughts on, on CMO that used to be Brand content focused.
Karen: I think that's a great advantage in today's market. And I think you hit on something, you know, there, there isn't a one size fits all mold for future leaders. And for, for a while we were super focused on that, you know, a dollar in gets you what out of the machine.
That's important to know your numbers, but you also want to make sure that you're being able to connect to the bigger brand. Picture and the business strategy, and I think that's an advantage that a lot of brand leaders bring to the table. They know how the, how customers in the market are interacting with their brand and their product.
Bringing insights to the table and connecting that to your strategy is a, is a real strength and a skill. Being able to, you know, Get your customer base, your employee base, excited about the challenges and opportunities ahead. So I'm excited about what future marketing leaders and, and business leaders might look like, what [00:37:00] unique pads they've brought to the table.
I mean, we're at a super interesting point in time. Folks have grown up with much more technical backgrounds with AI, you know, being part of all these consumer products, and then the ability to play with AI through Gen AI tools out there. I mean, I would say my tip is whoever wants to be a future CMO or C suite leader, don't stop learning.
You have to stay current and be curious about the new products and technology hitting the market. And then for anyone hiring future leaders, have an open mind. You know, I, I've said to folks before, I like to try and hire for potential. So maybe someone doesn't have what appears like the perfect resume or the exact experience that you're looking for, but are there similarities or do they have a track record for exceeding expectations and constantly pushing themselves?
So hire for potential, have an open mind about who might best fit the bill for that next leader position.
Ian: Okay, [00:38:00] let's get into quick hits. These are quick questions and quick answers. Just like how quickly qualified. com helps companies generate pipeline. Go to qualified. com to learn more. Quick hits. Karen, are you ready?
Karen: I guess. All right, let's do it.
Ian: Number one. Do you have a hidden talent or skill that's not on your resume?
Karen: Well, I became a mountain biker late in life, but most people that work with me know that that is a hidden skill. I know how to make a great cocktail and a frozen slushy cocktail since we're talking at the end of summer here, so.
Ian: I need one. Do you have a favorite book, podcast, or TV show that you'd recommend?
Karen: I love listening to Pipeline Visionaries podcast, of course. Thank you. Smart List podcast when I'm on a road show. I love watching TV series where there's some type of, you know, challenge or crime they're solving. And I just, maybe I'm late to the party, but I just finished True Detective Night [00:39:00] Country and really loved that one.
Ian: I haven't watched it yet. I'm saving it. I'm really excited. True Detective season one is probably one of my favorite seasons of. What is your best advice for a first time CMO?
Karen: Make sure you realize that your first team is the executive team. Don't underestimate the importance of getting to know your peers and investing in those relationships, because that is really going to be the key to your success.
Having a good team. That big picture understanding of the business, how you all work together, and where there is greater opportunity to unlock.
Ian: Karen, it's been wonderful having you on the show today. For our listeners, you can go to Totango. com. If you've got a chief customer officer, someone on the customer success team, go nudge them.
Tell them to check out Totango. Any final thoughts? Anything to plug?
Karen: No, I'm just excited to catch up with you next time, because I'll probably have a lot more exciting updates to share, and thanks for having me on the show, Ian. It was great.
Ian: Yeah, thanks so much for joining. And yeah, we're excited to hear all [00:40:00] the amazing updates.
Karen: Thanks.
Ian: Thanks again to our friends at Qualified. Go to qualified. com to learn more.